Looking for advice on training for a marathon
2009 November 11 (15:38)
categories: Blisters, Cold, Racing
Hello everyone!
I have been running barefoot now for nearly three months in preparation for the Flying Pig Marathon in May. I wasn’t in terrible shape before I made the switch, I had trained up to about 35 miles a week and I had set a marathon goal of 3:30 based on my Yasso-800’s. I dumped the shoes after I kept getting silver dollar size blisters on my feet that forced me to take time off of training.
Now that I have switched to barefoot, things aren’t exactly easier. I am running about 10 miles a week right now but I still have not mastered the technique, and now the weather is getting colder. This doesn’t stop me from running barefoot, but it does prevent me from getting accurate sensory information from my feet, which leads to blood blisters.
I can finish my runs feeling great, but once my feet have warmed up again, I can barely walk. The big problem is that I am running almost entirely on hills, the constant battering on the downhills take their toll, I still don’t know how to land to prevent getting blistered, no matter how I modify my technique, something else seems to invariably get blistered.
At first I just switched from place to place on my feet, as one area got blistered I would move to another. Then I tried landing with almost my entire foot instead of my ball or toes, which felt better, but eventually led to almost the entire thing getting blistered evenly. I have really been working on bending my knees more, quickening my cadence and lifting my feet instead of pushing off with them, but those downhills really are tough on my feet. Also, the rough spots are extremely challenging, there are times when I can’t come up with a way to run that isn’t painful and slow. The fact that I weigh 240lbs certainly can’t help the pounding my feet have been taking either.
What I’d like to know is…
First of all, is attempting the marathon as soon as May feasible or not?
I am getting frustrated and anxious because I haven’t had a cardio challenge from running in a while and I feel like I am getting out of shape while training.
Secondly, are there any tips I haven’t mentioned for going downhill?
I know this is supposed to take time and I need to cool it and let it happen in its own time, but I don’t like not having goals to set for myself. Even though I love running for its own sake, setting and meeting goals is a crucial part of the process that I enjoy.
Running has had to change for me, it is no longer a place I go to be broken and remade, a place of triumph and exhilaration.
This may sound crazy but its gotten too relaxing and easy, that obviously isn’t all bad at all – I do enjoy the tactile pleasure that running barefoot gives, I can certainly see it getting more challenging in the future as I adapt. Right now though, I am really having tough time with it, it feels like I lost a good friend in the transition.
Comments
Comment
from Doug
Time 2009 November 11 Wed at 5:53 pm
Oh, just to let you know where I am. I went from basically 0 mpw and am now doing about 20 mpw after about 40 days. I run about 6 days a week. I’m also a big guy at about 225 lb.
For running downhill, my recommendation is to increase your cadence and shorted your stride to control/reduce your speed.
Comment
from Zolodoco
Time 2009 November 11 Wed at 7:17 pm
Run or hike trails, gravel, and rough roads. These will teach you how to relax your feet and how to pick them up. The surfaces will also make your feet adapt faster. Even if you have to wear minimally soled shoes for warmth, trail debris and gravel will still provide you with these benefits.
Comment
from sherpa17
Time 2009 November 12 Thu at 5:30 am
Patrick/Doug–Loveland barefooter here. I do most of my running on the bike trail and at Sharon Woods…looking for fellow barefooters
sherpa17@hotmail.com
Comment
from Stryder
Time 2009 November 12 Thu at 8:26 am
I live in Lebanon, OH so it is good to know there other bare-footers out there! I have running and racing a long time and have run bare foot off semi-regularly for a few years. I committed to run exclusively barefoot (or with VFF when necessary) the beginning of September. I have the luxury of running around my yard and a neighbor’s mowed field most days. I began working in pavement a few weeks ago, and I did blister because I did too much too soon. I run daily and typically run about 30-35 miles a week, and ran on sidewalks for 4 miles earlier this week, which is my longest run on concrete. I also attempted to run at Caesar’s Creek barefoot last weekend, but I had to put on my VFF after 800m because my wife said I was too slow…the thin soles of the FF still made me have to adapt my trail running.
For me, I try to run on grass a couple of days between road runs, and as Ken Bob insists be patient and let your adaption and feet be your guide. It has helped me to run on a variety of surfaces as well. The field I run on has a very rough surface and lots of sticks and leaves in places, which helped on the my trail run last week. But on the trail run there was a lot of rocks and roots to watch out for. I was shocked how rough sidewalks were in my last run, and new asphalt is like running on silk!
I have tried and plan to run bare foot on a treadmill if it gets too cold outside, and I will use VFF first, and then add Injinji socks if it really gets cold and go from there…but I figure there will be a number of days through our winters where the temperatures get into the upper 30’s and lower 40’s a lot.
Even as much as I am able to run barefoot currently, I still have sensitivity in my soles, so I am still adapting each and every day. Every day is a new learning experience and a new experiment. I think you will have to be patient and see how your development progresses before you make a decision on the Flying Pig. Maybe set some shorter races as goals first. Hopefully, all of our input will encourage you to keep at it! I still get “are you nuts” looks…I love it!
Comment
from rubyist
Time 2009 November 12 Thu at 9:35 am
I don’t have any advice better than what’s already been given, but I’m throwing my hat in as a Cinci barefooter. I live down in Delhi but I frequently use the Loveland trails on weekends.
Comment
from Barefoot Ken Bob
Time 2009 November 12 Thu at 11:25 am
The problem most people have on down hills, is that they don’t run DOWN the hill, which, if you’re finding running hills (presumably downhills) battering, then this may be for you… If so, read my post “Running Downhills – Resistance is Futile!”
and other posts about running on hills:
Comment
from climbhoser
Time 2009 November 12 Thu at 1:58 pm
Ken Bob nailed it (as usual). When I run downhill barefoot I have to work REALLY hard to control it. It is challenging. One technique I have found helpful is to point my toes out. For me, avoiding blisters is a challenge in controlling the foot’s contact with the ground. Imagine the old x and y axis in junior high geometry. You want all y axis velocity at contact, no x axis. Meaning your foot shouldn’t have force on it forwards or backwards, just up and down. This is why concentrating on picking your feet up is so helpful.
I find that thinking of picking up isn’t enough, though. I actually REALLY lean way forward, and my feet come forward almost just to catch me. Then the foot is lifted up AND back, like I’m kicking my own butt. I read one time about a running in place technique…run like you’re running in place, but lean forward and you’ll magically go. When you lose the feeling, stop, run in place again and slowly lean forward to where you’re going.
This is not the best technique, but it does serve to train your feet a bit. When I do it my head bobs, and it’s really difficult to stop that, but it does help me get down the concept of the vertical contact with the feet, and helps me exaggerate my movements and create some muscle memory. It also helps me take it real slow. Slowing down is really hard.
When I first started barefooting I actually found I could go pretty far pretty easily and very fast. I ran a 21 minute 5K right out of the shooter, but I had blood and water blisters all over my feet. Bad, bad technique! Then I tried the running in place gimmick and ran a 35 minute 5K with not a single blister. I was in good 5K shape, but terrible 10K plus shape, or so I thought, but I found by slowing it down and running better I could actually go for 12 mile runs very quickly! I mean, we’re talking less than two months of BF running and I was on my way!
Feet toughen, but not as much as you think. It’s really hard to un-train your brain to think barefoot. We’re so used to the protection we overdo it easily. Skin is like a loose shoe. What happens in a loose shoe if we push it? Blisters. Run carefully, like you’re wearing loose shoes. Does that help? Sorry, I can be disjointed….
Comment
from Stryder
Time 2009 November 13 Fri at 6:22 am
climbhoser, does that mean to rid ones self of sensitive, tender feet you can’t speed up? In other words be content with slower running…I keep trying to get faster, although in all honestly I don’t know why…
Comment
from climbhoser
Time 2009 November 13 Fri at 7:14 am
It means at first speed should be the least of your worries. Don’t think you can just take the shoes off and start a training marathon. You need to go through barefoot training first. For now the best way to attain speed is simply to move your legs faster. In time you will learn more subtle muscle control allowing you to push without blistering. Just getting out and playing with these concepts, experimenting with stride and not worrying about marathon training sounds like a good route.
Comment
from Barefoot Ken Bob
Time 2009 November 13 Fri at 7:32 am
Climbhoser, and Stryder,
One shouldn’t “try” to rid oneself of tender feet. The soles will toughen as your feet (muscles, tendons, ligaments, even bones), and mind become prepared for running barefoot faster, longer, and preferably NOT harder (that’s where the mind comes in).
Tender feet are a blessing, teaching us how to run gently, letting us know when we’ve run enough, or too much. I’ve occasionally taken a few weeks off running, allowing my feet to become more tender, so I could discover new advances in my Running Barefoot technique.
And as climbhoser states, setting yourself up for a barefoot marathon goal, before you have learned to run barefoot, is a lot like putting the cart before the horse – all though that is also possible, with the right kind of cart and harnessing…
Anyway, my answer to your question probably didn’t go far enough; It is possible to do a barefoot marathon in spring, starting out where you are now… however, if your eyes are set on the goal of the barefoot marathon, you probably won’t be focused enough on trying to improve your barefoot running technique. In which case, you’ll probably miss both goals completely – due to frustration (not being able to run far enough, soon enough), injury, etc…
So, if you really want to run barefoot in a full marathon next spring, don’t think about that, for now. Focus on learning how to run barefoot, until that becomes easy enough that distance starts getting easier. Your distance and speeds will naturally begin to increase, as your technique improves, and then as your distances and speeds increase, using good running barefoot techniques, you’ll be building up your body, in the places it will need to be built up, as much as it needs to built up, for good running barefoot technique.
As far as speed, and running downhills, there’s a better way to slow down, than to point toes out, which is not just a bad habit to get into, but will put unnatural strains on the knees, and who knows what else… Danny Dreyer illustrates, in his book, “Chi-Running” that it is possible to run “sideways,” or kind of diagonally, on hills too steep to be “runable”. That is not to say you take diagonals across the trail, but that your body is facing diagonally, or sideways in respect with the direction you are traveling. I believe Danny was talking about down hills (I don’t have the book with me right now), but I have tried it both up and down, and it works fine either direction (and I told Danny so) … but, basically, it’s kind of a modified crab walk/run. This keeps the feet more or less parallel to each other. Just be careful to step the upper foot AROUND and OVER the lower foot, so you don’t trip yourself up…
Now, obviously this is only useful on hills that are too steep to run really fast down, or too steep to keep the soles fully on the ground, with the foot pointed straight up the hill, on up hills too. But, then, if the hills aren’t too steep (relative to individual skill/ability level), then we don’t need to do a crab walk.
Enjoy those sensitive soles – if they’re still sensitive, they still have a lot more to teach…
Comment
from Zolodoco
Time 2009 November 13 Fri at 5:22 pm
Running diagonally saves me from having to push off hard to get up a really steep trail and it’s a heck of a lot easier on my achilles tendons.
Comment
from dblake
Time 2009 November 15 Sun at 8:48 am
Running downhills: lean back a little. Small steps. Fast cadence. Don’t forget to lift your toes.
Blisters in general. Push only in the center of the footstroke, and not much at the ends of the footstroke. The foot strike, and liftoff, should not apply horizontal force to the pavement. That should happen in the middle of the footstroke, when your weight is squarely over the foot. It should be SMOOTH.
Getting prepped for marathon: I would forget it. Let your feet tell you when they are ready. The improvements are slow and gradual, and “pushing it” generally makes things worse. If you feel OK after a run, do the same run or slightly longer 2 days later. Etc. If you cannot do the same run 2 days later, wait another day. Etc.
HTH, keep running!
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Comment from Doug
Time 2009 November 11 Wed at 5:45 pm
I had the luxury of not having an ingrained running pattern. When I started running barefoot I was running 0 mpw. I didn’t have to break many habits. It was just a matter of learning what was right and trying to do it. However, (minus the cold) I personally think five months is enough time to learn to run a marathon barefoot. Of course, I’ve never trained for a marathon. I’m just saying based on the rate of progress I’ve seen. The problem as you’ve said the cold and the hills complicate matters. Not being an expert, I may recommend that you stop running and let your feet heal. Then I might recommend you start off slower (and maybe flatter) to learn to run. Once your you can run a few miles without blisters you can build up fairly quickly (I think). While you’re waiting for your feet to heal and learning to run again, cross-train for cardio like on a bike or something. That’s my newbie $0.02.
Also, if you’re in or around Cincinnati we should get together and run sometime. I live up by Kings Island.